Don Muddiman Flying Machine
08-12-2011, 03:53 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Protanopia (Color Blindness)
Because of this color blindness I have found the Black/Yellow combination to provide the best tracking for my flying. Especially at high altitude when you lose the absence of color and can see only contrasting differences. This has been my secret for many years allowing me to fly out of sight for most of the viewing spectators but still retain control of the aircraft. If you have ever seen my demo you know what I'm talking about when I climb to my death dive. I once had a Loctite logo version of Flying Machine that was Blue/White but I soon sold the aircraft just because of the colors. To me white and blue are the worst colors for a small and fast R/C aircraft. Why would you ever want to camouflage your R/C aircraft aginst the sky. I have seen many pilots over the years lose aircraft because of their color selection causing disorientation. Just lessons learned from many years of flying. The old eyes are not what they use to be but I can still GIT-R-DONE.
Because of this color blindness I have found the Black/Yellow combination to provide the best tracking for my flying. Especially at high altitude when you lose the absence of color and can see only contrasting differences. This has been my secret for many years allowing me to fly out of sight for most of the viewing spectators but still retain control of the aircraft. If you have ever seen my demo you know what I'm talking about when I climb to my death dive. I once had a Loctite logo version of Flying Machine that was Blue/White but I soon sold the aircraft just because of the colors. To me white and blue are the worst colors for a small and fast R/C aircraft. Why would you ever want to camouflage your R/C aircraft aginst the sky. I have seen many pilots over the years lose aircraft because of their color selection causing disorientation. Just lessons learned from many years of flying. The old eyes are not what they use to be but I can still GIT-R-DONE.
08-12-2011, 04:22 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Hey Don,
Any word on when you will have the 1st prototype at the field for testing? I'd be interested in being at the field when it's ready.
Also - Speaking of secrets… I’ve always wondered what your secret is for being able to consistently land the plane at your feet after your “energy management landingâ€. In over 20 years of watching your demos, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you have to take more than 2 steps to pick up the plane. Even in high winds, cross winds, etc. you always bring it right back to your feet… What’s the secret???
Any word on when you will have the 1st prototype at the field for testing? I'd be interested in being at the field when it's ready.
Also - Speaking of secrets… I’ve always wondered what your secret is for being able to consistently land the plane at your feet after your “energy management landingâ€. In over 20 years of watching your demos, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you have to take more than 2 steps to pick up the plane. Even in high winds, cross winds, etc. you always bring it right back to your feet… What’s the secret???
08-14-2011, 04:28 AM
#428
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Something I learned a long time ago, it helps to remember your last control input to recover from a sticky situation (thanks Oscar) I know this is hard to do with a fast machine like the FM, but every little bit helps. I love the NEON colors and my pink FM is so EASY to see and FLY (thanks to the expertise of Joel/high quality scratch builder). anyways back to the bench!
08-14-2011, 02:15 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: flyingmachine
Something I learned a long time ago, it helps to remember your last control input to recover from a sticky situation (thanks Oscar) I know this is hard to do with a fast machine like the FM, but every little bit helps. I love the NEON colors and my pink FM is so EASY to see and FLY (thanks to the expertise of Joel/high quality scratch builder). anyways back to the bench!
Something I learned a long time ago, it helps to remember your last control input to recover from a sticky situation (thanks Oscar) I know this is hard to do with a fast machine like the FM, but every little bit helps. I love the NEON colors and my pink FM is so EASY to see and FLY (thanks to the expertise of Joel/high quality scratch builder). anyways back to the bench!
4 X futabe digitals for less than $60
What specs?
I am holding out on purchase of a motor and servos for this....if the FM composite does come down, I want to be 100% open to supply whatever it needs....
08-15-2011, 06:12 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Hey guys, I just got home form IRCHA and have new pictures of two completed prototypes for Don and I to test. My partner flew to China on Sunday and is checking them out. If they look good he will bring them home and ship to Don and I for a little testing.
08-15-2011, 08:06 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Looks good, but appears to have much less strengthening than the original. Needs four wing bolts with aluminum sheeting support, not just two. Also wing looks a tad weak with no glass cloth on the wing saddle and no TE sheeting. My Scream Machine (similar to Flying Machine in most all design respects) has a built up wing but it is also sheeted front and back for strength. Hate to buy one and then have to add $$ to strengthen it!
08-15-2011, 08:20 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Hate to keep raining on the parade, but I just noticed the lightening holes in the fuse sides and bottom. That doesn't seem right to me knowing what I'm going to expect out of this plane. Again seems weak at what is perhaps THE most critical part of the airframe. So much stress there. I think it will break with the kind of flying some of us will do with this plane. Also, will there be any type of wing saddle on the inside of the fuse?
I know Don and the design team will come to a good conclusion, but I think the wait just got a bit longer. I'm still excited, but now I'm wondering...
I know Don and the design team will come to a good conclusion, but I think the wait just got a bit longer. I'm still excited, but now I'm wondering...
08-15-2011, 11:09 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
These are two different builds not in the original CAD design. One with ply and one balsa.These are just prototypes with a fewideas of a lighter, faster, stronger, aircraft. The guy building the prototypes is a world class glider designer with 300 mph plus gliders doing really crazy stuff. He builds a large portion of the highG load gliders in the market and wanted us to take a look at some new ideas they are using in their newest gliders. The aluminum blocks for the wings will always be a part of the kit.
Once we look at what wehave we will make our final changes and start the production.
Once we look at what wehave we will make our final changes and start the production.
08-15-2011, 12:06 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Awesome!
Don't misunderstand me. I'm all about innovation. However, I know you guys will figure it all out!! I just know what some of us will do with these ARF's and will expect them to be at least as strong as our scratch-built aircraft. I've NEVER seen any ARF that can withstand the flight envelope we see in the Flying Machine/Scream Machine scratch-built designs.
You guys have a huge task to make that happen in an ARF and stay within the price point you've mentioned. Thanks for the effort!
By the way, I'd love to get in on some of that testing action!! Just sayin'!
Don't misunderstand me. I'm all about innovation. However, I know you guys will figure it all out!! I just know what some of us will do with these ARF's and will expect them to be at least as strong as our scratch-built aircraft. I've NEVER seen any ARF that can withstand the flight envelope we see in the Flying Machine/Scream Machine scratch-built designs.
You guys have a huge task to make that happen in an ARF and stay within the price point you've mentioned. Thanks for the effort!
By the way, I'd love to get in on some of that testing action!! Just sayin'!
08-15-2011, 12:58 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
I agree, most ARFs are all about the price and not much about construction. The Flying Machine can't be cheated. If it doesn't pass the Don test, it won't be worth marketing. This is most likely the only ARF I know of that has no room for skimping.
08-15-2011, 01:47 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: Condor060
These are two different builds not in the original CAD design. One with ply and one balsa. These are just prototypes with a few ideas of a lighter, faster, stronger, aircraft. The guy building the prototypes is a world class glider designer with 300 mph plus gliders doing really crazy stuff. He builds a large portion of the high G load gliders in the market and wanted us to take a look at some new ideas they are using in their newest gliders. The aluminum blocks for the wings will always be a part of the kit.
Once we look at what we have we will make our final changes and start the production.
Once we look at what we have we will make our final changes and start the production.
I like the looks of the bottom FUSE...Until some testing is done (high speed dives and g outs) we won't know. Hey if she passes the test you know I am in. I think the composite FUSE is the way to go..kinda FAI'ish. Anyways we are all bitting our nails here !!!!
THIS IS TRULY EXCITING STUFF!
08-15-2011, 06:13 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: Condor060
These are two different builds not in the original CAD design. One with ply and one balsa. These are just prototypes with a few ideas of a lighter, faster, stronger, aircraft. The guy building the prototypes is a world class glider designer with 300 mph plus gliders doing really crazy stuff. He builds a large portion of the high G load gliders in the market and wanted us to take a look at some new ideas they are using in their newest gliders. The aluminum blocks for the wings will always be a part of the kit.
Once we look at what we have we will make our final changes and start the production.
Once we look at what we have we will make our final changes and start the production.
One Idea I had for the build is a stronger block for landing gear and then the owner has the option to upgrade to 1/4 X 20 blind nuts (If not already)
I use Nylon 1/4 X 20's on the gear for a break away in case a bad landing, etc [:'(] as shown
08-15-2011, 07:40 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: bkg1956
Awesome!
Don't misunderstand me. I'm all about innovation. However, I know you guys will figure it all out!! I just know what some of us will do with these ARF's and will expect them to be at least as strong as our scratch-built aircraft. I've NEVER seen any ARF that can withstand the flight envelope we see in the Flying Machine/Scream Machine scratch-built designs.
Awesome!
Don't misunderstand me. I'm all about innovation. However, I know you guys will figure it all out!! I just know what some of us will do with these ARF's and will expect them to be at least as strong as our scratch-built aircraft. I've NEVER seen any ARF that can withstand the flight envelope we see in the Flying Machine/Scream Machine scratch-built designs.
My old plans-built Flying Machine had a piped OS 46VF and would withstand full throttle terminal velocity dives ending in one of those snap-roll-flat-spins that the Flying Machine is famous for. If the ARF can't withstand that maneuver over and over again, then the design isn't ready to sell.
I figure if Don can't find a way to make it come apart in the air, then the Flying Machine ARF will be ready for market.
P.S. Count me in for beta testing if needed!
08-15-2011, 07:54 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Spoken like a true ProBro!! If it can't handle extreme, it ain't a Flying Machine! I love it when the guys at the field lose count on the number of full throttle diving spins from out of sight altitude!
And, the Flying Machine/Scream Machine design really gets the attention of young pilots, which is definitely great for the future of the R/C sport!!! After a flight they love to gather around and ask questions and talk about high speed aerobatics.
By the way, Dave, I have a .46VF on a Scat Cat. How did you mount it on the FM and run the pipe/header? Sideways? Any mods to make it work?
And, the Flying Machine/Scream Machine design really gets the attention of young pilots, which is definitely great for the future of the R/C sport!!! After a flight they love to gather around and ask questions and talk about high speed aerobatics.
By the way, Dave, I have a .46VF on a Scat Cat. How did you mount it on the FM and run the pipe/header? Sideways? Any mods to make it work?
08-15-2011, 08:15 PM
#443
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
It's been a LONG time, but it seems like the pipe was on the right side, and I had to cut away a lot more of the firewall to clear the header than I would have preferred. Before that I was running the old Macs X-Style open end venturi mufflers. Remember those? The firewall still needed needed to be cutout some, but not as much as the pipe header required.
Today I'd probably use a side exhaust OS 46 AX to avoid the headaches of a rear exhaust tuned pipe installation.
In fact, I'd REALLY like to see the ARF version have the motor mount tilted far enough to run the muffler/pipe directly underneath the fuselage.
Today I'd probably use a side exhaust OS 46 AX to avoid the headaches of a rear exhaust tuned pipe installation.
In fact, I'd REALLY like to see the ARF version have the motor mount tilted far enough to run the muffler/pipe directly underneath the fuselage.
08-15-2011, 09:13 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
I hear you! My Scream Machine (similar to FM) has a cowl-less design so pipe mounting is effortless. Not as pretty as a cowl but much more practical. I can get to the engine to correct any problems without a dismount. Can mount the engine at any angle.
08-15-2011, 09:44 PM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
ORIGINAL: Nitro-Tom
I am sure you guys will rock this build! Look at how far you have come in such a short time, compaired to the last guys
One Idea I had for the build is a stronger block for landing gear and then the owner has the option to upgrade to 1/4 X 20 blind nuts (If not already)
I use Nylon 1/4 X 20's on the gear for a break away in case a bad landing, etc [:'(] as shown
I am sure you guys will rock this build! Look at how far you have come in such a short time, compaired to the last guys
One Idea I had for the build is a stronger block for landing gear and then the owner has the option to upgrade to 1/4 X 20 blind nuts (If not already)
I use Nylon 1/4 X 20's on the gear for a break away in case a bad landing, etc [:'(] as shown
..Chris
08-16-2011, 07:56 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Chris, it's great to hear that. As you know, we've all had the experience of noticing something getting "loose" on our various ARF's, doing a little forensic surgery, only to find joints without glue along with the inexplicable fractures. With most ARF's you can land it, make the repair and no harm done. Not so with the FM! You'll be picking up the pieces! With a FM I don't believe overkill is a bad thing.
Never fear! Don will sort it all out shortly.
Never fear! Don will sort it all out shortly.
08-16-2011, 08:44 AM
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RE: Don Muddiman Flying Machine
Both prototypes were shipped to me express from China yesterday. I have no clue what that means in time frame but they are on the way. I will be fed-Xing them to Don as soon as they arrive. THis reply might be a bit long but I promised to keep everyone up to speed so heres the rap.
I agree with Chris. And by the way, its great to have East RC weigh in on this. Thanks for your involvement. We look forward to you guys helping finalize this design.
I have one of their (East RC) prototypes I have been flying in shows for the last few months. My show flight includes three or four dives from low orbit wide open throttle to a series of hard snaps. I have done this now over one hundred times throughout the 25-30 flights I have logged. I have no clue how many times Don flew this bird before I got it. The newer technology we may (or may not) use in the construction on the ARF FM isn't using the FM as a test bed. It's in use in aircraft that have longer wings and higher speeds. As to G forces in a 300 MPH plus gliders turning at the high rate of speeds we are seeing I really don't know how they compare.
According to the math we are in overkill mode for the FM. Now this is yet to be seen and we all know that the ultimate test of the structure is Don's constant hammering of the airframe. If the airframe fails it is still good news meaning we know what to address. Building more (now that we have everything in place to start the assembly line) only takes a couple of days so we can continue spiting out corrected aircraft until it's what we need.
Our plant manager in charge of this project also designs and builds our scale Beechcraft Baron twin, our nitro and electric Chaos helicopters, the scale B200 King Air, an electric 8 ft 747 with ducted EDF, our new scale Concord EDF, and a long history of other aircraft currently in the market. He is also the guy who produces our scale fuse for the Bell 407, 429, Hughes MD 500, BlackHawk, and AStar 350.
He was very excited to help with the FM project and has spent the last 5 weeks in development of this design. In my experience, most engineers I have dealt with feel they have to make a few changes to validate their credibility to a project and again we don't know what we have until it explodes but with that being said, our experience with this guy over the last few years has been very successful.
What makes this project so great is having Don (the original designer, the best FM pilot we know of, with 35 years experience in new technologies with Lockheed/Martin) giving of his time to oversee this project to its final conclusion.
I would like to film every flight (including any failures) so we can all know whats going on. If Don can rip the wings off or snap the fuse in half it will be good PR for the aircraft as everyone will have a record of what it took to bring this to its final phase.
I agree with Chris. And by the way, its great to have East RC weigh in on this. Thanks for your involvement. We look forward to you guys helping finalize this design.
I have one of their (East RC) prototypes I have been flying in shows for the last few months. My show flight includes three or four dives from low orbit wide open throttle to a series of hard snaps. I have done this now over one hundred times throughout the 25-30 flights I have logged. I have no clue how many times Don flew this bird before I got it. The newer technology we may (or may not) use in the construction on the ARF FM isn't using the FM as a test bed. It's in use in aircraft that have longer wings and higher speeds. As to G forces in a 300 MPH plus gliders turning at the high rate of speeds we are seeing I really don't know how they compare.
According to the math we are in overkill mode for the FM. Now this is yet to be seen and we all know that the ultimate test of the structure is Don's constant hammering of the airframe. If the airframe fails it is still good news meaning we know what to address. Building more (now that we have everything in place to start the assembly line) only takes a couple of days so we can continue spiting out corrected aircraft until it's what we need.
Our plant manager in charge of this project also designs and builds our scale Beechcraft Baron twin, our nitro and electric Chaos helicopters, the scale B200 King Air, an electric 8 ft 747 with ducted EDF, our new scale Concord EDF, and a long history of other aircraft currently in the market. He is also the guy who produces our scale fuse for the Bell 407, 429, Hughes MD 500, BlackHawk, and AStar 350.
He was very excited to help with the FM project and has spent the last 5 weeks in development of this design. In my experience, most engineers I have dealt with feel they have to make a few changes to validate their credibility to a project and again we don't know what we have until it explodes but with that being said, our experience with this guy over the last few years has been very successful.
What makes this project so great is having Don (the original designer, the best FM pilot we know of, with 35 years experience in new technologies with Lockheed/Martin) giving of his time to oversee this project to its final conclusion.
I would like to film every flight (including any failures) so we can all know whats going on. If Don can rip the wings off or snap the fuse in half it will be good PR for the aircraft as everyone will have a record of what it took to bring this to its final phase.